tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post3966748500185652744..comments2024-03-15T04:08:16.172-04:00Comments on Only the Cinema: TOERIFC: Black BookEd Howardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18014222247676090467noreply@blogger.comBlogger205125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-8787227201578757352010-11-12T09:24:29.713-05:002010-11-12T09:24:29.713-05:00Adam, thanks for checking in with your thoughts. O...Adam, thanks for checking in with your thoughts. One place I thoroughly disagree with you, though, is on the comparison to <i>Schindler's List</i>. You say that one film intends only to entertain and the other to educate, but I don't think <i>Black Book</i> can be so easily dismissed. Verhoeven, as he always does, uses popular forms to deliver his satire and his ideas. But just because Ed Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18014222247676090467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-41801030272053106252010-11-08T01:19:46.815-05:002010-11-08T01:19:46.815-05:00Sorry I'm late to this dicussion, Ed. Can you ...Sorry I'm late to this dicussion, Ed. Can you believe it's been a whole year? But I'd like to spill my thoughts about the film and some of the comments here, so here it goes...<br /><br />One way you've helped me appreciate this film a bit more is in illuminating how it attempts to look at the "grays" of WWII like few other films set in the same time period ever have. InAdam Zanziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14524618281515322239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-80275170023172865972010-05-20T15:48:52.810-04:002010-05-20T15:48:52.810-04:00I swear to God, Ed, you are on another level. How...I swear to God, Ed, you are on another level. How does it feel to be the most intelligent film blogger writing right now? I don't anything about your personal/professional life but I pray you're putting these analytical skills to good use.<br /><br />---<br /><br />Thanks for participating in the My Best Post Blog-a-Thon. Your link (and some nice words from me) will be posted on Fridayelgringohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16856962746924193109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-5177241636202120722009-07-24T10:13:45.720-04:002009-07-24T10:13:45.720-04:00Just in case anyone's still checking in here, ...Just in case anyone's still checking in here, the last of my Verhoeven reviews is up now, on his final American film, <a href="http://seul-le-cinema.blogspot.com/2009/07/hollow-man.html" rel="nofollow">Hollow Man</a>.Ed Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18014222247676090467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-45013601627126736692009-07-23T13:14:04.361-04:002009-07-23T13:14:04.361-04:00Joseph, I can obviously wholeheartedly recommend d...Joseph, I can obviously wholeheartedly recommend dipping into his earlier Dutch films. In my opinion, they're not only better than his Hollywood work, but provide a window into his later films, a rubric through which to better understand and appreciate what he's after in his Hollywood genre deconstructions. His best Dutch films are probably <i>The Fourth Man</i>, <i>Turkish Delight</i>, Ed Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18014222247676090467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-15364993517642952482009-07-23T01:44:18.575-04:002009-07-23T01:44:18.575-04:00Ed-
Never seem FLESH AND BLOOD. Like I said, I re...Ed-<br /><br />Never seem FLESH AND BLOOD. Like I said, I really need to catch up on my Verhoeven. I think the only movies I've seen of his are ROBOCOP, SHOWGIRLS, STARSHOOP TROOPERS, TOTAL RECALL, BASIC INSTINCT and now BLACK BOOK. I should probably catch up with his earlier stuff. It seems like those of the above that have seen his work prior to ROBOCOP have enjoyed it? What am I waiting JOSEPH CAMPANELLAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18432551762553721818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-41808986120396053702009-07-22T13:28:11.709-04:002009-07-22T13:28:11.709-04:00Hey Joseph, thanks for stopping by, I'm glad y...Hey Joseph, thanks for stopping by, I'm glad you (mostly) enjoyed the film. Framing devices like this sometimes bother me in the way you describe, especially when they seem pointless or gimmicky, but in this film I thought it worked well. The framing device adds an additional layer to Rachel's story, and the knowledge that she winds up in Israel somehow when this is all over, though it Ed Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18014222247676090467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-27404025729452341472009-07-22T01:23:15.593-04:002009-07-22T01:23:15.593-04:00Ed-
I'm a day or two late to all this... but ...Ed-<br /><br />I'm a day or two late to all this... but just wanted to let you know this was a great pick and I'm very happy I moved it up on my netflix queue. I've loved of few of Verhoveven's movies, but I've never considered him a great director. I suppose he should be on that list, but there is still something about him....I can't explain.<br /><br />This movie, thoughJOSEPH CAMPANELLAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18432551762553721818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-51229806453625324102009-07-21T14:02:10.327-04:002009-07-21T14:02:10.327-04:00Marilyn, that's a great writeup on Showgirls, ...Marilyn, that's a great writeup on <i>Showgirls</i>, a film very much in need of such eloquent defenses. It seems like your view of the film has at least some common ground with my own. <a href="http://seul-le-cinema.blogspot.com/2009/07/showgirls.html" rel="nofollow">Here's my own new review</a> so the Verhoeven discussion can continue.<br /><br />Greg, needless to say we think you Ed Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18014222247676090467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-32713444382313058252009-07-21T12:31:39.285-04:002009-07-21T12:31:39.285-04:00Here's my piece on ShowgirlsHere's my piece on <i><a href="http://www.beachwoodreporter.com/tv/the_secret_subversion_of_showg.php" rel="nofollow">Showgirls</a></i>Marilynhttp://www.ferdyonfilms.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-82364064765861852009-07-21T12:11:52.649-04:002009-07-21T12:11:52.649-04:00I confess I have only seen about two minutes of Sh...I confess I have only seen about two minutes of <b>Showgirls</b> on cable once so I will rely on your review and Marilyn's defense to make up my mind if I ever want to actually see it.Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05730146625671701859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-19344131645563124172009-07-21T11:08:22.005-04:002009-07-21T11:08:22.005-04:00I reviewed Showgirls, too, actually defended it mo...I reviewed <i>Showgirls</i>, too, actually defended it more than reviewed it. I'll be interested to see what you have to say.Marilynhttp://www.ferdyonfilms.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-8557287497724055802009-07-21T10:58:22.204-04:002009-07-21T10:58:22.204-04:00That movie sounds interesting, Marilyn; I thought ...That movie sounds interesting, Marilyn; I thought you were talking about Verhoeven's Dutch films, not Dutch films in general.<br /><br />Paul, thanks for stopping by, welcome to TOERIFC. I'm totally with you about <i>Robocop</i>, which is a great action movie and a great movie in general. I don't think it's stiff or non-flowing at all.<br /><br />Greg, thanks a lot, this was a Ed Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18014222247676090467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-26528415155286791602009-07-21T10:48:28.071-04:002009-07-21T10:48:28.071-04:00Ed, before I forget let me officially thank you fo...Ed, before I forget let me officially thank you for your exemplary hosting job this month. A great write-up and another in-depth, informative discussion for TOERIFC. And it's still going too!Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05730146625671701859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-64484030227861136092009-07-21T10:39:10.781-04:002009-07-21T10:39:10.781-04:00What's this about Robocop's action not flo...What's this about <b>Robocop's</b> action not flowing smoothly? Certainly the bits with the stop-motion android, but that's to be expected from something that was, basically, new technology.<br /><br />Beyond that, the two big action scenes (the shoot-out in the coke factory and the final battle) are about as good as 1980's action gets. Considering that Peter Weller was in a huge,Paul Arrand Rodgershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10369036006191440677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-12141992150396813112009-07-21T10:16:46.860-04:002009-07-21T10:16:46.860-04:00It's called in English A Question of Silence f...It's called in English <i>A Question of Silence</i> for some reason. Director is Marleen Gorris. I wrote about it <a href="http://ferdyonfilms.com/2008/08/gender-attitudes-in-two-reveng.php" rel="nofollow">here</a>.Marilynhttp://www.ferdyonfilms.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-91707351239979450092009-07-21T09:55:06.672-04:002009-07-21T09:55:06.672-04:00I'm not familiar with the body of Verhoeven...<i>I'm not familiar with the body of Verhoeven's work, but I agree that this was a personal film for him, and one made better by his excursion in Hollywood. The Dutch films I have seen (admittedly not a lot) tend to get bogged down in polemicism</i>.<br /><br />I like his Dutch work quite a bit, but I wouldn't necessarily disagree. Verhoeven is very polemical, he never lets you forgetEd Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18014222247676090467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-54768913479826298332009-07-21T09:11:38.872-04:002009-07-21T09:11:38.872-04:00I'm not familiar with the body of Verhoeven...I'm not familiar with the body of Verhoeven's work, but I agree that this was a personal film for him, and one made better by his excursion in Hollywood. The Dutch films I have seen (admittedly not a lot) tend to get bogged down in polemicism. Even when I like them (e.g., <i>The Silence of Christina M</i>), I never forget that they are making a statement. Verhoeven certainly has that Marilynhttp://www.ferdyonfilms.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-1683210769728298062009-07-21T09:05:16.544-04:002009-07-21T09:05:16.544-04:00Thanks for stopping by, Kassy, I'm really glad...Thanks for stopping by, Kassy, I'm really glad you enjoyed the movie. It does draw heavily on all those genres you mention, which is, along with Van Houten's amazing central performance, a big part of what makes the film so entertaining.Ed Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18014222247676090467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-37437324618940172292009-07-21T02:04:56.016-04:002009-07-21T02:04:56.016-04:00Sorry to be late, I just finished watching the fil...Sorry to be late, I just finished watching the film and reading the comments and am left with nothing to say, my punishment for being late to the party.<br /><br />Ed, your write-up was excellent!<br /><br />I was writing down some notes but Shubhajit seems to have stolen my comments in their entirety :) <br /><br />Netflix kept recommending this film to me and I kept ignoring them, I'm now kassyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10258944461462092099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-50768055878198907252009-07-20T22:52:57.613-04:002009-07-20T22:52:57.613-04:00I can't wait until Rick doesn't give a shi...<i>I can't wait until Rick doesn't give a shit about TOERIFC next month when it's at my place.</i>...<br /><br />Fox, I won't give a shit in SPADES at your place!<br /><br /><i>It inadvertantly condones fascism through it's bumbling satire. You guys are crazy.</i> ...<br /><br />Oh yeah? Says who?<br /><br /><i>[That oughta fix him ...]</i>Rick Olsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04846018585978997261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-75431757037601914292009-07-20T22:24:42.249-04:002009-07-20T22:24:42.249-04:00Well said, Kevin. I think you're right that Ve...Well said, Kevin. I think you're right that Verhoeven is too often dismissed as a genre hack for his Hollywood films, when there's really a lot going on in them. It's so easy to just laugh at <i>Showgirls</i> and treat it as either total trash or at best a campy pleasure -- and in some ways it IS both of those, but it's also a surprisingly sophisticated film about women, the Ed Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18014222247676090467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-26829181680216547072009-07-20T20:28:09.365-04:002009-07-20T20:28:09.365-04:00The most important, to me, is that in his Hollywoo...<i>The most important, to me, is that in his Hollywood films, there's a greater gap and tension between surface and subtext. These films tend to present themselves as the opposite of what they really are beneath the surface; they're satires in disguise.</i><br /><br />This is wonderfully stated. I have always thought that Verhoeven was making great satires/commentary masquerading as Kevin J. Olsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17275402809912728035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-42449379780387676142009-07-20T20:10:33.561-04:002009-07-20T20:10:33.561-04:00Conversely then, SOLDIER OF ORANGE, obviously fall...Conversely then, SOLDIER OF ORANGE, obviously falls into the second category, but it really doesn't on the other hand quite follow the Hollywood action movie, as it has little violence, especially by Verhoven's standards.Sam Julianonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-37080307148632682752009-07-20T19:58:50.985-04:002009-07-20T19:58:50.985-04:00Earlier in this thread, Kevin had asked what I tho...Earlier in this thread, Kevin had asked what I thought of the place of <i>Black Book</i> in Verhoeven's oeuvre as a whole. I didn't want to detour that much from the film at hand at the time, but to kickstart a little more conversation now (and hopefully into tomorrow as well), I might as well follow up on that question. I see <i>Black Book</i> as something of a return to the style of Ed Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18014222247676090467noreply@blogger.com