tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post8140560941056980239..comments2024-03-15T04:08:16.172-04:00Comments on Only the Cinema: Soldier of OrangeEd Howardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18014222247676090467noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-82745043932130426822009-05-22T13:28:55.114-04:002009-05-22T13:28:55.114-04:00To be honest, it's been so long since I've seen Th...To be honest, it's been so long since I've seen <B>The Fourth Man</B>, and I remember so little about it, that I can't honestly say I don't like it. I didn't at the time -- though I can't say I remember hating it, either -- but who knows what I'd think if I watched it again.<br /><br />And I don't mind in-your-face sexuality (far from it!) or playing with melodrama, or any of that. I just don'tbill r.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17748572205731857892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-11158756228462575652009-05-22T07:45:29.951-04:002009-05-22T07:45:29.951-04:00Ed: A fine review of a film I haven't seen in a nu...Ed: A fine review of a film I haven't seen in a number of years but one that I still remember quite clearly. It's not my favourite Verhoeven film, but nonetheless is one that shows a different facet of his filmmaking career, and, as you say in these comments, one that is thematically connected to his last film Black Book.<br /><br />Bill: I agree with Ed. You should track down some more of his Lights in the Duskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03120326024293724432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-41319668553819723682009-05-21T17:28:33.513-04:002009-05-21T17:28:33.513-04:00As much as I don't agree with your low assessment ...As much as I don't agree with your low assessment of the Hollywood films (and I would cite <I>Starship Troopers</I> as the best of those!), I do think his Dutch work is not only better, but helps to put his later work into its proper context. Then again, if you didn't like <I>The Fourth Man</I> either, maybe Verhoeven just isn't for you.Ed Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18014222247676090467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-55019466228109764412009-05-21T16:50:58.319-04:002009-05-21T16:50:58.319-04:00I've seen the aforementioned Robocop, Starship Tro...I've seen the aforementioned <B>Robocop</B>, <B>Starship Troopers</B> (feh!), <B>Total Recall</B>, <B>Hollow Man</B>, <B>Basic Instinct</B> (I know, it's all looking very commercial so far, isn't it?), half of <B>Showgirls</B> at regular speed, the other half at FF speed, <B>Flesh and Blood</B>, <B>The Fourth Man</B>...and I think that's it. So I guess more than I thought, but mostly his bill r.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17748572205731857892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-17976094997242534742009-05-21T16:44:11.444-04:002009-05-21T16:44:11.444-04:00Out of curiosity, which films have you seen? For m...Out of curiosity, which films have you seen? For my part, I think he's often funny and that his shocks are fairly complex and rarely *just* about being shocking. I get the sense that he wants to make viewers uncomfortable, yes, to shock them, but that he does it in order to provoke them into thinking about their genre expectations, and also because he genuinely views sex and shitting and other Ed Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18014222247676090467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-73443571038885450762009-05-21T16:34:29.570-04:002009-05-21T16:34:29.570-04:00I don't mind extreme or, er, un-straightforwardnes...I don't mind extreme or, er, un-straightforwardness. I just never think his satire is that clever, or funny, except <I>maybe</I> in <B>Robocop</B>, and when he shocks, I get the sense that shock is all he had on his mind. Though I should probably add that I've seen relatively few of his films, and haven't watched <B>Black Book</B>, which I actually have high hopes for (and had those hopes well bill r.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17748572205731857892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-88729413933662290562009-05-21T16:24:12.508-04:002009-05-21T16:24:12.508-04:00Not to get your hopes up too much, Bill, but you m...Not to get your hopes up too much, Bill, but you might enjoy this one even if you're not usually a fan. It's less extreme and more straightforward than many of his other films. It's recognizable as Verhoeven, certainly, but slightly more restrained for once. What usually bothers you about him?<br /><br /><I>Flesh and Blood</I> is the next of his films I'm going to watch. Unlike you, I have yet toEd Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18014222247676090467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-48408489534877520752009-05-21T15:58:53.727-04:002009-05-21T15:58:53.727-04:00I've always wanted to see this, despite not being ...I've always wanted to see this, despite not being much of a Verhoeven fan. It sounds up my alley, but then so do a lot of his films, and I'm generally disappointed.<br /><br />Ed, what do you think of <B>Flesh and Blood</B>?bill r.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17748572205731857892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-75908010625365813702009-05-21T14:46:00.608-04:002009-05-21T14:46:00.608-04:00Quite to the contrary, Sam, I fully expect to get ...Quite to the contrary, Sam, I fully expect to get some negative opinions of <I>Black Book</I> when I host the discussion about it. In fact, it'd be a pretty boring conversation if everyone agrees, and one of the good things about Verhoeven is that he can always get people talking, whether they love or hate his work.Ed Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18014222247676090467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-13244446367027273952009-05-21T14:28:21.223-04:002009-05-21T14:28:21.223-04:00I am not a fan of BLACK BOOK, although I do admire...I am not a fan of BLACK BOOK, although I do admire Carise Van Houten's performance. Does this mean I am banned from TOERIFC??<br /><br />Just kidding. I look forward to your insights.Sam Julianonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-42978985242287531682009-05-21T13:10:37.123-04:002009-05-21T13:10:37.123-04:00Tommy, I love Black Book; it's my favorite Verhoev...Tommy, I love <I>Black Book</I>; it's my favorite Verhoeven film, in fact, and it's also my choice for the <A HREF="http://toerifc.blogspot.com/" REL="nofollow">TOERIFC</A> film club, to be discussed in July. You're right that it's obviously developed from the template of <I>Soldier of Orange</I>, but I don't want to say too much more about it here. Have to save up my thoughts about that one 'Ed Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18014222247676090467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-58906621864450271472009-05-21T12:50:43.682-04:002009-05-21T12:50:43.682-04:00Excellent review of a great, overlooked film. His ...Excellent review of a great, overlooked film. His newer film Black Book reminded me of this one, but this film is better. It manages to be a true war film without miring in cliches, and yet has a unique spirit. Rutger Hauer, what happened?Thomas Pluckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17008022962076648740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-34972364450241575732009-05-21T10:52:29.781-04:002009-05-21T10:52:29.781-04:00"especially in the way Erik is almost fiercely loy..."especially in the way Erik is almost fiercely loyal to his friends even as he has this bad habit of falling in love with their girlfriends."<br /><br />This is spot on, but this phrase definitely made me chuckle! It's absolutely right, and it's funny to think about how true it is.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07134196370913749544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-81361132896160471492009-05-21T10:21:21.390-04:002009-05-21T10:21:21.390-04:00"What Verhoeven's interested in here is defusing t..."What Verhoeven's interested in here is defusing the usual war movie clichés: the over-the-top patriotism, the stoic heroes, the girl loyally waiting back home. He signals his subversive intent, subtly, in the opening scenes."<br /><br />Aye, quite right. And this is (as you contend) an intricate, rich and multi-layered emotional film, that I consider one of it's director's finest. Erik's 'Sam Julianonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-12588065722342177282009-05-21T08:53:11.792-04:002009-05-21T08:53:11.792-04:00Thanks, Dave. I agree about the handling of Erik -...Thanks, Dave. I agree about the handling of Erik -- too often films that have a "reluctant hero" at their center try to lean too hard on the hero part, afraid to make him too unsympathetic. Erik really comes across as a guy who just kind of stumbled into a rough situation that he really didn't want to be involved in. Verhoeven's characterization is very ambiguous and multi-layered, especially in Ed Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18014222247676090467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3296479421292377391.post-44931724085799652352009-05-21T08:24:41.100-04:002009-05-21T08:24:41.100-04:00Excellent review, Ed. This is one that I saw on a...Excellent review, Ed. This is one that I saw on a whim and did not know what to expect from it, but I was glad that I gave it a chance. Your description of the unraveling of this grand historical event into its individual strands is a great analysis of the film. I also like how Erik is handled... he's a "hero," but reluctantly. A lot of times when directors try to portray a reluctant hero it Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07134196370913749544noreply@blogger.com